Finally able to support authors

[Frogm4n]

Originally Posted by haertig

I agree that original authors should be credited for their work. But I can also see problems in trying to provide that credit for a product that has no license or usage requirements that I can find, is not copyrighted or patented as far as I can find, and was written by someone known only by their pseudonym/alias.

I just had a look at the NoDRM repo and while there isn't an overall license file, all of the files I looked at had a header with copyright info, and many of them were GPLv3 while others were specified as public domain.

[DNSB]

Looking at both the old Apprentice Alf and the newer NoDRM repositories, there seems to no issues crediting pseudonyms. Perhaps something as simple as "Our thanks to the all the creators and maintainers of DeDRM for the chance to charge you for what they are giving away for free"?

Out of curiosity, where in the GPLv3 license which seems to be the most popular in the DeDRM components does it say that if I don't use my real name, I do not deserve to receive credit for my work.

Of course, the big nasty is this:

For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by haertig

Giving credit to a phantom who wants to remain a phantom is (1) not an easy task, (2) probably an inappropriate thing to attempt in the first place, given the authors apparent desire to remain a phantom.

Nonsense.

Thanks to The Dark Reverser, Apprentice Alf, I ♥ Cabbages, Apprentice Harper, NoDrm, and all those who helped them make it possible for DRM to be removed from ebooks. Without them we couldn't possibly do what we do.

Nobody's suggesting they "out" anyone. They're saying acknowledging that they didn't actually create 99.9% of the code themselves (and thanking those who did) would go a long way toward reducing the sleaze factor.

People do that sort of anonymous "you know who you are..." thanking/attribution all the time. Like a lot of book dedications. Just a bit of a casual, anonymous, provenance statement would be nice. And not at all difficult or dangerous.

EDIT: almost forgot I ♥ Cabbages!

[John F]

Originally Posted by haertig

I agree that original authors should be credited for their work. But I can also see problems in trying to provide that credit for a product that has no license or usage requirements that I can find, is not copyrighted or patented as far as I can find, and was written by someone known only by their pseudonym/alias. ...

This is more of a general question... My understanding is that anything written is copyrighted; the original authors could pursue this if they wanted (ignoring the posts/facts that there does appear to be licensing/copyright declarations)?

[Aleron Ives]

Originally Posted by Quoth

for ACSM/ADE DRM downloads there is need to install or register ADE unless you are using it for a Library.

You don't technically need ADE for libraries, either. The ACSM Calibre plugin has an option to return the book when you're done reading it.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

You don't technically need ADE for libraries, either. The ACSM Calibre plugin has an option to return the book when you're done reading it.

Or return it through Overdrive or Libby.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

You don't technically need ADE for libraries, either. The ACSM Calibre plugin has an option to return the book when you're done reading it.

I never remove DRM from loans. I only clean material I bought.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Frogm4n

I just had a look at the NoDRM repo and while there isn't an overall license file, all of the files I looked at had a header with copyright info, and many of them were GPLv3 while others were specified as public domain.

The issue is not just the DRM removal plugin. Epubor also contains a copy of calibre and several plugins for it, including my KFX Input plugin. No credit is given for any of that code.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Actually, that is exactly what you said when you stated that his statement was not factually correct.

I never said that his statement was not factually correct either. Where are you coming up with these things that you claim I said?

Are you going to try to debate that making a factually incorrect statement is not an epitome of dishonesty?

Are you claiming that if I said, "Wow, it's raining cats and dogs out there!" that I am the epitome of a dishonest person? Hyperbole is not the same as lying in an attempt to deceive, no matter how far you try take such a silly literal interpretation.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by haertig

I can't believe that people here did not recognize "literal" vs. "hyperbole". I figured all 27,000,000,000,000 of the members here would know what hyperbole was.

Originally Posted by haertig

I never said that his statement was not factually correct either. Where are you coming up with these things that you claim I said?

Are you going to deny the quote from your message above? Since the statement was obviously not literal since it can and was proven to be untrue and hyberbole, by definition, is making a false statement for whatever reason. See "hyperbole is not intended to be taken as an accurate representation of reality." What do you call a deliberate statement that is not an accurate representation of reality? Statistics?

Originally Posted by haertig

Are you claiming that if I said, "Wow, it's raining cats and dogs out there!" that I am the epitome of a dishonest person? Hyperbole is not the same as lying in an attempt to deceive, no matter how far you try take such a silly literal interpretation.

What I am saying is that in a debate about facts, hyperbole has no place since it is deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. What you want to say about the weather outside of a debate is not relevant. The poster attempted to deceive people about the number of posts about DRM in a single thread (a "megathread" was the exact wording I seem to remember reading) as proving his hypotheses that configuring DRM removal was not easy.

I will admit that your apparent approval of inserting false statements into what should have been a factual discussion is a bit disconcerting.

Would you have acted as an apologist for me if I had written:
<hyperbole on>
I have installed calibre and DeDRM on thousands hyperbole in effect
of computers and it was an embarrassinglyhyperbole in effect
easy task even the very first time.
<hyperbole off>

[haertig]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I will admit that your apparent approval of inserting false statements into what should have been a factual discussion is a bit disconcerting.

As is your apparent mandate for him to have counted the exact number of posts in a thread asking the question. Your mandate is nonsense. He was making a point that there are "lots of posts" asking for help. Which indeed there are. He made a valid point. But this point was completely overlooked, in favor of belittling him, attempting to make him out as dishonest and a liar - for something as stupid as an exact count of posts. Which no sane person is going to supply for you.

I know that there are several people on this forum who will jump on the most trivial and irrelevant innocent detail in someones post to mount an attack on their character. I honestly had not placed you in that group of people, you've always seemed very sensible to me. There is no need to skip over someones point in a rush to assassinate their character. Leave that to the pros - and we have several of them here on this forum.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by haertig

As is your apparent mandate for him to have counted the exact number of posts in a thread asking the question. Your mandate is nonsense.

If he had said thousands, I would have had no argument with his statement. What I objected to and still object to is his deciding that using a more realistic number for the posts in that nameless "megathread" was not going to happen.

As for counting the messages? Mobileread does that for us. Just add one to the number of replies and you have the total message count. See attached image. I certainly hope that nobody thought that I counted the messages in the Forum Game: Last person to post here wins! thread by hand!

Originally Posted by haertig

He was making a point that there are "lots of posts" asking for help. Which indeed there are. He made a valid point. But this point was completely overlooked, in favor of belittling him, attempting to make him out as dishonest and a liar - for something as stupid as an exact count of posts. Which no sane person is going to supply for you.

He could easily have made the point using a number that more accurately reflected the number of posts in the thread. Again, he chose to use an unrealistic number.

Originally Posted by haertig

I know that there are several people on this forum who will jump on the most trivial and irrelevant innocent detail in someones post to mount an attack on their character. I honestly had not placed you in that group of people, you've always seemed very sensible to me. There is no need to skip over someones point in a rush to assassinate their character. Leave that to the pros - and we have several of them here on this forum.

I love numbers which pretty well makes anyone who misuses numbers anathema to me. A numeric error which is reasonable, say, stating the the 3 most posted in DRM removal threads have around 5,000 posts can squeak by. That is a rather large number of messages though a quick examination says that more of them are answers to questions than questions. An error by more than 850%? That is a misstatement that is hard for me to accept especially in light of how @leebase ended the message.

Originally Posted by leebase

Easy peasy

I may be unrealistic in expecting this type of discussion to adhere even loosely to the rules of debate. Most of the rules of debate are pretty much standardized.

5. He who asserts must prove. In order to establish an assertion, the team must support it with enough evidence and logic to convince an intelligent but previously uninformed person that it is more reasonable to believe the assertion than to disbelieve it. Facts must be accurate. Visual materials are permissible, and once introduced, they become available for the opponents' use if desired.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by DNSB

An error by more than 850%? That is a misstatement that is hard for me to accept...

I think this goes to the heart of our differing viewpoints on this. You think it is an "error". I think it is an "error" only if you are taking things literally, and to the extreme. If you take the statement as hyperbole - making a point by using exaggeration - as I believe it was intended - then it is no longer an "error".

You may think that hyperbole has no place in a forum such as MobileRead. I might scratch my head trying to figure that one out, but we can all believe what we want. Personally, I use hyperbole all the time. And self deprecation. And sarcasm. And innuendo. And double meanings. They are all valid and acceptable ways to make a point or to provide some comic relief to ease tension. You can interpret them as lies and the epitome of dishonesty if you want, but that is not the way they are intended, nor do I believe the way most people interpret them. This forum is not a debate theater IMHO. It is an informal internet gathering place where friends talk about books - reading them, collecting them, talking about which ones they liked or disliked, etc. Unfortunately, many of the discussions stray off into unfriendly territory. I am just as guilty of that as other members here. I think we should all strive to be better.

With that in mind, I will take the exit ramp from this sub-plot we have been pursuing. Not "packing up my toys and going home", rather, taking the exit ramp that I'll bet both of us have been looking for. We have gotten ourselves into a rather silly discussion. Believe it or not, my initial post in this sub-plot was only intended to be a minor defense of what I felt was over reaction to a point being made by another member. The primary intent of that post was to lighten the darkening tone of the thread by making a joke about hyperbole - pointing out a minor hyperbole by using a major hyperbole "... 27,000,000,000,000 members ..." But the joke fell flat. I don't think many people here have much of a sense of humor, at least not my kind of sense of humor. I have to keep reminding myself, "Never plan an outing with MobileRead members at the Comedy Club - that would be a total disaster!"

[Karellen]

Originally Posted by haertig

"... 27,000,000,000,000 members ..." But the joke fell flat.

I thought it funny, and actually wrote a reply, then thought I better not antagonise the commentary any further and deleted it.

[ownedbycats]

This argument is silly.