Classic The nook is bad for eBooks - Page 6

Propheous · 12-20-2009, 09:26 PM

I have to agree that this thread is completely worthless in this forum on this venue. There are many other forums this topic could be approach in a much better and a much more intelligent fashion. However this being the internet I am not surprised.

This is specifically a DRM discussion which has really nothing to do with the Nook. The nook is a device. the B&N store is something else entirely.

kennyc · 12-20-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Propheous

I have to agree that this thread is completely worthless in this forum on this venue. There are many other forums this topic could be approach in a much better and a much more intelligent fashion. However this being the internet I am not surprised.

This is specifically a DRM discussion which has really nothing to do with the Nook. The nook is a device. the B&N store is something else entirely.

With the exception that the new DRM was implemented precisely FOR the Nook. That makes it relevant. I think that's what Jon was getting at in starting it.

Houndx · 12-20-2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Propheous

I have to agree that this thread is completely worthless in this forum on this venue. There are many other forums this topic could be approach in a much better and a much more intelligent fashion. However this being the internet I am not surprised.

This is specifically a DRM discussion which has really nothing to do with the Nook. The nook is a device. the B&N store is something else entirely.

I'd agree that this belongs in the epub forum and would more appropriately be titled "Fragmentation of the epub market is bad for ebooks"

sunebird · 12-21-2009, 11:17 AM

Yes, but the Nook is sold by B&N....the company who is giving us this trouble.

JSWolf · 12-21-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musicman

I disagree with you - It is not B&N's fault.

I think they are clear that their e-books can be read on devices that their ereader program runs on (which includes your PC) or their nook. So you can read the book, just not on your sony reader. They have been up front that their support of Epub was with their social DRM that Adobe was making available next year to others.

What you need to do is have sony implement the ereader DRM in an upgrade of Adobe Digital Editions on their readers when it is available next year.

Prove to me it's not B&N's fault. Go to the following link and find where it says the book is in ePub using social DRM instead of the ID based DRM.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The...2069&inframe=y

Also have a look on B&N's site and show me where it mentions ePub and the new social DRM. If they do mention it, is it in a place people are likely to find?

JSWolf · 12-21-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunebird

Barnes & Noble customer service will NOT give refunds on downloaded content. I explained that I assumed that epub was a standard format, and that the samples work. How is THAT for customer service!!!

The solution to that is to strip the DRM and enjoy the book.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66295

Now that we can strip the DRM.

But I do agree that B&N is at fault here and you should be able to go to your credit card company and get them to refunt the money since B&N was not up front as to what it was you bought.

stangri · 12-21-2009, 01:41 PM

Still don't get what the fuss is all about. Not only the thread topic is a lie, but can anyone point me to where B&N guarantees that their ebooks are readable on the devices with the outdated software?

kennyc · 12-21-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stangri

Still don't get what the fuss is all about. Not only the thread topic is a lie, but can anyone point me to where B&N guarantees that their ebooks are readable on the devices with the outdated software?

There is no guarantee, no one said there was, but it IS IMPLIED and not stated specifically. And with the refusal of refunds it's almost like they are being intentionally deceptive.

JSWolf · 12-21-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musicman

B&N does list the devices that their reader application can be installed on and to me it is very clear. If they read the getting started page they say you need to download their reader software and it lists the Ipod, Itouch, blackberry, PC, Mac and nook as compatible devices. I think this is pretty clear that it won't work on a sony. I have an EZ-Reader that supports Epub and it was clear to me that I could not read B&N Epub on it until there is an update on the software to support the new Adobe/B&N DRM.

The problem I see is that someone read that B&N was going with Epub, but failed to read that it was implementing its social DRM.

Again WRONG!

The getting started page does not list competitor's devices. But given that B&N want to sell the nook, it would make sense not to list a Sony Reader or Astak Pocket Pro as they are competing devices. And no place on the getting started page does it mention ePub or the DRM being used. So if you do not know about B&N's new ePub DRM, you then would see the sample is in ePub and think OK, it's ePub, my device handles ePub since it has ADE on it. And you buy the eBook. But it doesn't work. This is deceptive practices from B&N. The eBook's listing doesn't mention ePub and it doesn't mention the DRM when it is ePub. And the fact that B&N won't refund your money is again wrong. If I was unable to strip the DRM, I would be contacting my bank to get my money refunded due to the deceptive practice B&N is engaging in.

JSWolf · 12-21-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musicman

Where on their site does it say Epub??

Right on the Ebook tab under getting started there is an option that says supported devices....

The sample obviously had no DRM - If I was going to try this I would have downloaded some free books - made sure they had DRM and tried to read those.

I just feel that personal responsibility comes into play - it isn't always someone elses fault.

Why do you think B&N is innocent when B&N is clearly in the wrong.

Let's say I go to Kobo.com and download a free eBook in ePub. The ADE setup I have works with that eBook that has DRM. So I know my setup is good to go. It works. I can read the eBook on my 505. I can buy ePub now. Then I go to B&N and find they have ePub. Great, I can buy from B&N too. So I buy and cannot use the eBook I just bought. B&N is at fault for not telling me up front that I cannot use any ePub eBooks from them with my 505.

The problem here is B&N's. No other eBook format has multiple DRM for the same format. So why would the average person have to research B&N's ePub first? They would not know there is a second DRM now for ePub. It's B&N's job to tell them in the eBook's listing that it uses a different DRM then what other DRMed ePub does. B&N didn't meet their obligations. B&N is the one who should be informing the public. It's not the public that has to research ePub just because of B&N. And in my sample above, what was done should have been enough research if B&N was upfront and honest.

JSWolf · 12-21-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stangri

I fail to see the point of the topic (nook is bad for ebooks). I see that the nook is great for eBooks -- it reads pretty much everything bought elsewhere and uses modern software. The other e-ink devices are clearly inferior to nook and by being outdated they are bad for ebooks.

This is not a case of my reader is better then yours. This is a case of B&N selling ePub without telling the public about the new DRM. That is misleading and deceptive and might be illegal too.

JSWolf · 12-21-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stangri

Still don't get what the fuss is all about. Not only the thread topic is a lie, but can anyone point me to where B&N guarantees that their ebooks are readable on the devices with the outdated software?

The topic is not a lie. B&N is the one's lying with a sin of omission.

The problem is that B&N is the only one's with the software. It's not that what we have is outdated, what we have CANNOT YET be made compatible because the SDK from Adobe has not yet been written to allow others to be compatible.

Let's say you went to CVS to buy some AA batteries for your remote control. You bought CVS brand AA batteries. You took them home and put them in your TV remote. They didn't work. But later on you find out they only work in a CVS brand remote. But on the packaging it doesn't mention they only work in a CVS brand remote and the batteries look like ordinary AA batteries. Would you be pissed at CVS or would you say it's your fault for buying them?'

OnceAWolf · 12-21-2009, 02:07 PM

Having been looking at reading devices and formats only for a short time, I have no illusions that anything purchased thru B&N would work on any device other than those listed. Looking at their site the only mention of epub I can find are under things about their eReader.

netseeker · 12-21-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem is that B&N is the only one's with the software. It's not that what we have is outdated, what we have CANNOT YET be made compatible because the SDK from Adobe has not yet been written to allow others to be compatible.

When the PRS-505 came out it was the only device with support of DRMed ePub because Adobe's mobile reader sdk wasn't officially released at that time.

The new SDK will come out, other devices will support the new DRM scheme too. Old wine in new wineskins...

JSWolf · 12-21-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netseeker

When the PRS-505 came out it was the only device with support of DRMed ePub because Adobe's mobile reader sdk wasn't officially released at that time.

The new SDK will come out, other devices will support the new DRM scheme too. Old wine in new wineskins...

But there was not an issue. If your reader was not a 505, you did not have ePub support and you did not buy ePub for your reader. Now we have two different DRM schemes and unless you know that B&N is using a different DRM, you very well may end up buying ePub from B&N.

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12-20-2009, 09:26 PM	#76
Propheous Connoisseur Posts: 54 Karma: 330 Join Date: Nov 2009 Device: Nook	I have to agree that this thread is completely worthless in this forum on this venue. There are many other forums this topic could be approach in a much better and a much more intelligent fashion. However this being the internet I am not surprised. This is specifically a DRM discussion which has really nothing to do with the Nook. The nook is a device. the B&N store is something else entirely.

12-21-2009, 11:17 AM	#79
sunebird Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: Sony	Yes, but the Nook is sold by B&N....the company who is giving us this trouble.

12-21-2009, 01:41 PM	#82
stangri Addict Posts: 352 Karma: 55400 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: YVR/BWS/PUJ Device: nook	Still don't get what the fuss is all about. Not only the thread topic is a lie, but can anyone point me to where B&N guarantees that their ebooks are readable on the devices with the outdated software?

12-21-2009, 02:07 PM	#88
OnceAWolf Member Posts: 10 Karma: 12 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: Kindle Keyboard, android, ipad...	Having been looking at reading devices and formats only for a short time, I have no illusions that anything purchased thru B&N would work on any device other than those listed. Looking at their site the only mention of epub I can find are under things about their eReader.

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