Judge rules online archive's book service violated copyright - Page 2

ownedbycats · 03-26-2023, 11:19 AM

@Sarmat89 - The last few years, the Open Library won't let you download anything at all. Most books only allow a 1-hour loan which can only be viewed in the browser.

Losing the Open Library would be a huge loss for OOP books where the rights are in limbo.

Sarmat89 · 03-26-2023, 11:40 AM

Their reading application is not protected, either with DRM region or with random images preventing screen capturing. That is a ruse.

salamanderjuice · 03-26-2023, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

The IA definitely contains books that were discarded from the libraries. Instead of being burned as they regulations require, they ended up scanned somehow.

Where is it required that discarded library books be burned??? I have had or have several discarded library books bought at sales from the library or from resellers on Amazon. Why would they bother stamping "DISCARDED" if they were just going to burn them???

DNSB · 03-26-2023, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

The IA definitely contains books that were discarded from the libraries. Instead of being burned as they regulations require, they ended up scanned somehow.

A rather interesting statement. The local libraries have no such regulation and books removed from their collections are often sold. While the first sale doctrine is not codified in Canada, the Canadian Supreme court has recognized the value of the idea. For an American library, the first sale doctrine would definitely apply unless you are willing to claim that a library's purchase of a book is not a sale.

On one occasion when on a trip to Florida, I visited a bookstore at the University of Florida where the entire stock was books that were removed from the library collection. Obviously, the police should be informed!

ownedbycats · 03-26-2023, 03:54 PM

Also... Overdrive also uses Adobe DRM. So Im not really getting Sarmat's points.

issybird · 03-26-2023, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Also... Overdrive also uses Adobe DRM. So Im not really getting Sarmat's points.

It's the part about the discards having to be burned that most gets me. No pulping, no shredding, no recycling. Fire only, by regulation! The sheer ludicrousness of that should have been a tipoff that something was wrong with the source. People really need to bring a critical eye to what they read.

salamanderjuice · 03-26-2023, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Also... Overdrive also uses Adobe DRM. So Im not really getting Sarmat's points.

Libby doesn't block the user from taking screenshots either. I think where Sarmat lives libraries are locked down like Fort Knox lest the publishers lose a dime.

DiapDealer · 03-26-2023, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

So Im not really getting Sarmat's points.

It's the same point as always. Everyone's a pirate. Everything is a criminal enterprise.

ownedbycats · 03-26-2023, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

It's the part about the discards having to be burned that most gets me. No pulping, no shredding, no recycling. Fire only, by regulation! The sheer ludicrousness of that should have been a tipoff that something was wrong with the source. People really need to bring a critical eye to what they read.

My friend mentioned that the optics of burning books wouldn't be too good...

CleanYourNibs · 03-26-2023, 10:30 PM

Frankly, I'm not surprised, I'm just disappointed. Look at the way, for example, video games are going, with DRM becoming more and more common: Denuvo even has a Switch version now. Between that and the fact that book piracy is being cracked down on now—albeit only so much—it's not surprising.

From an archival standpoint it's incredibly upsetting though, since there is that complicated balance between "let people make unlimited copies for free" and "publishers want to make money on the books that they publish/fund", especially since I lean far further on the side of "if any books get lost for whatever reason, it's sad".

Sarmat89 · 03-27-2023, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Also... Overdrive also uses Adobe DRM.

It does identify the user by a government-issued ID though, so the leakers can be traced.

issybird · 03-27-2023, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

My friend mentioned that the optics of burning books wouldn't be too good...

And not just the optics; think what it would do to the air quality.

jhowell · 03-27-2023, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

It does identify the user by a government-issued ID though, so the leakers can be traced.

But not if removing the DRM also removes the identity of the person who obtained it. Then the tie to the government ID (library card) will no longer be a factor.

I don’t understand why you are defending OverDrive when that is far more likely to be a source for e-book piracy than the Internet Archive.

theducks · 03-27-2023, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

Where is it required that discarded library books be burned??? I have had or have several discarded library books bought at sales from the library or from resellers on Amazon. Why would they bother stamping "DISCARDED" if they were just going to burn them???

I think there is some confusion with 'Stripped Books'. Those were never sold and the store was credited.

My local Library (Friends of, group) has book sales.
I just don't know the source of those. I had assumed, they were removed from circulation, thus the discarded stamp that supersedes the 'property of Library ' markings.

Quoth · 03-27-2023, 10:23 AM

Stripped books have no cover. The cover is returned by retail or wholesale for a credit. They must be destroyed, usually by pulping, never heard of burning. Thus a stripped book in circulation is theft.

Libraries (public & schools) often sell or giveaway old stock, even VHS and DVD rental places. That's quite permissible. They may be stamped "withdrawn" or "discarded" etc.

The only VHS/DVD/BD limitation is that retail copies are not allowed to be rented. The rental copies traditionally cost more. They may also be a different edit.

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03-26-2023, 11:19 AM	#16
ownedbycats Custom User Title Posts: 8,755 Karma: 62032371 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Libra H2O, formerly Aura HD	@Sarmat89 - The last few years, the Open Library won't let you download anything at all. Most books only allow a 1-hour loan which can only be viewed in the browser. Losing the Open Library would be a huge loss for OOP books where the rights are in limbo.

03-26-2023, 11:40 AM	#17
Sarmat89 Evangelist Posts: 483 Karma: 2267928 Join Date: Nov 2015 Device: none	Their reading application is not protected, either with DRM region or with random images preventing screen capturing. That is a ruse.

03-26-2023, 03:54 PM	#20
ownedbycats Custom User Title Posts: 8,755 Karma: 62032371 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Libra H2O, formerly Aura HD	Also... Overdrive also uses Adobe DRM. So Im not really getting Sarmat's points.

03-26-2023, 10:30 PM	#25
CleanYourNibs Member Posts: 14 Karma: 2139382 Join Date: Dec 2022 Device: Kobos, Kindles, Boox, a Nook and a Sony	Frankly, I'm not surprised, I'm just disappointed. Look at the way, for example, video games are going, with DRM becoming more and more common: Denuvo even has a Switch version now. Between that and the fact that book piracy is being cracked down on now—albeit only so much—it's not surprising. From an archival standpoint it's incredibly upsetting though, since there is that complicated balance between "let people make unlimited copies for free" and "publishers want to make money on the books that they publish/fund", especially since I lean far further on the side of "if any books get lost for whatever reason, it's sad".

03-27-2023, 10:23 AM	#30
Quoth the rook, bossing Never. Posts: 11,429 Karma: 87454321 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11	Stripped books have no cover. The cover is returned by retail or wholesale for a credit. They must be destroyed, usually by pulping, never heard of burning. Thus a stripped book in circulation is theft. Libraries (public & schools) often sell or giveaway old stock, even VHS and DVD rental places. That's quite permissible. They may be stamped "withdrawn" or "discarded" etc. The only VHS/DVD/BD limitation is that retail copies are not allowed to be rented. The rental copies traditionally cost more. They may also be a different edit.

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